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My all-time favorite argument against squandering one's talent on a major; altho it's not explicitly theory-related, it may have relevance to those who study it.
________________________
"the problem with music"
by steve albini
(excerpted from Baffler No. 5)
Whenever I talk to a band who are about to sign with a major label, I always end up thinking of them in a particular context. I imagine a trench, about four feet wide and five feet deep, maybe sixty yards long, filled with runny, decaying shit. I imagine these people, some of them good friends, some of them barely acquaintances, at one end of this trench. I also imagine a faceless industry lackey at the other end, holding a fountain pen and a contract waiting to be signed.
Nobody can see what's printed on the contract. It's too far away, and besides, the shit stench is making everybody's eyes water. The lackey shouts to everybody that the first one to swim the trench gets to sign the contract. Everybody dives in the trench and they struggle furiously to get to the other end. Two people arrive simultaneously and begin wrestling furiously, clawing each other and dunking each other under the shit. Eventually, one of them capitulates, and there's only one contestant left. He reaches for the pen, but the Lackey says, "Actually, I think you need a little more development. Swim it again, please. Backstroke."
And he does, of course.
I. A&R Scouts
Every major label involved in the hunt for new bands now has on staff a high-profile point man, an "A&R" rep who can present a comfortable face to any prospective band. The initials stand for "Artist and Repertoire," because historically, the A&R staff would select artists to record music that they had also selected, out of an available pool of each. This is still the case, though not openly.
These guys are universally young [about the same age as the bands being wooed], and nowadays they always have some obvious underground rock credibility flag they can wave. Lyle Preslar, former guitarist for Minor Threat, is one of them. Terry Tolkin, former NY independent booking agent and assistant manager at Touch and Go is one of them. Al Smith, former soundman at CBGB is one of them. Mike Gitter, former editor of XXX fanzine and contributor to Rip, Kerrang and other lowbrow rags is one of them. Many of the annoying turds who used to staff college radio stations are in their ranks as well.
There are several reasons A&R scouts are always young. The explanation usually copped-to is that the scout will be "hip" to the current musical "scene." A more important reason is that the bands will intuitively trust someone they think is a peer, and who speaks fondly of the same formative rock and roll experiences.
The A&R person is the first person to make contact with the band, and as such is the first person to promise them the moon. Who better to promise them the moon than an idealistic young turk who expects to be calling the shots in a few years, and who has had no previous experience with a big record company. Hell, he's as naive as the band he's duping. When he tells them no one will interfere in their creative process, he probably even believes it.
When he sits down with the band for the first time, over a plate of angel hair pasta, he can tell them with all sincerity that when they sign with company X, they're really signing with him and he's on their side. Remember that great, gig I saw you at in '85? Didn't we have a blast.
By now all rock bands are wise enough to be suspicious of music industry scum. There is a pervasive caricature in popular culture of a portly, middle aged ex-hipster talking a mile-a-minute, using outdated jargon and calling everybody "baby." After meeting "their" A&R guy, the band will say to themselves and everyone else, "He's not like a record company guy at all! He's like one of us." And they will be right. That's one of the reasons he was hired.
These A&R guys are not allowed to write contracts. What they do is present the band with a letter of intent, or "deal memo," which loosely states some terms, and affirms that the band will sign with the label once a contract has been agreed on.
The spookiest thing about this harmless sounding little "memo," is that it is, for all legal purposes, a binding document. That is, once the band sign it, they are under obligation to conclude a deal with the label. If the label presents them with a contract that the band don't want to sign, all the label has to do is wait. There are a hundred other bands willing to sign the exact same contract, so the label is in a position of strength.
These letters never have any term of expiration, so the band remain bound by the deal memo until a contract is signed, no matter how long that takes. The band cannot sign to another label or even put out its own material unless they are released from their agreement, which never happens. Make no mistake about it: once a band has signed a letter of intent, they will either eventually sign a contract that suits the label or they will be destroyed.
One of my favorite bands was held hostage for the better part of two years by a slick young "He's not like a label guy at all,' A&R rep, on the basis of such a deal memo. He had failed to come through on any of his promises (something he did with similar effect to another well-known band), and so the band wanted out. Another label expressed interest, but when the A&R man was asked to release the band, he said he would need money or points, or possibly both, before he would consider it.
The new label was afraid the price would be too dear, and they said no thanks. On the cusp of making their signature album, an excellent band, humiliated, broke up from the stress and the many months of inactivity.
II. There's This Band
There's this band. They're pretty ordinary, but they're also pretty good, so they've attracted some attention. They're signed to a moderate-sized "independent" label owned by a distribution company, and they have another two albums owed to the label.
They're a little ambitious. They'd like to get signed by a major label so they can have some security—you know, get some good equipment, tour in a proper tour bus—nothing fancy, just a little reward for all the hard work.
To that end, they got a manager. He knows some of the label guys, and he can shop their next project to all the right people. He takes his cut, sure, but it's only 15%, and if he can get them signed then it's money well spent. Anyway, it doesn't cost them any thing if it doesn't work. 15% of nothing isn't much!
One day an A&R scout calls them, says he's "been following them for a while now," and when their manager mentioned them to him, it just "clicked." Would they like to meet with him about the possibility of working out a deal with his label? Wow. Big Break time.
They meet the guy, and y'know what—he's not what they expected from a label guy. He's young and dresses pretty much like the band does. He knows all their favorite bands. He's like one of them. He tells them he wants to go to bat for them, to try to get them everything they want. He says anything is possible with the right attitude. They conclude the evening by taking home a copy of a deal memo they wrote out and signed on the spot.
The A&R guy was full of great ideas, even talked about using a name producer. Butch Vig is out of the question—he wants 100 g's and three points, but they can get Don Fleming for $30,000 plus three points. Even that's a little steep, so maybe they'll go with that guy who used to be in David Letterman's band. He only wants three points. Or they can have just anybody record it [like Warton Tiers, maybe—cost you 5 or 10 grand] and have Andy Wallace remix it for 4 grand a track plus 2 points. It was a lot to think about.
Well, they like this guy and they trust him. Besides, they already signed the deal memo. He must have been serious about wanting them to sign. They break the news to their current label, and the label manager says he wants them to succeed, so they have his blessing. He will need to be compensated, of course, for the remaining albums left on their contract, but he'll work it out with the label himself. Sub Pop made millions from selling off Nirvana, and Twin Tone hasn't done bad either: 50 grand for the Babes and 60 grand for the Poster Children—without having to sell a single additional record. It'll be something modest. The new label doesn't mind, so long as it's recoupable out of royalties.
Well, they get the final contract, and it's not quite what they expected. They figure it's better to be safe than sorry and they turn it over to a lawyer—one who says he's experienced in entertainment law—and he hammers out a few bugs. They're still not sure about it, but the lawyer says he's seen a lot of contracts, and theirs is pretty good. They'll be getting a great royalty: 13% [less a 10% packaging deduction]. Wasn't it Buffalo Tom that were only getting 12% less 10? Whatever.
The old label only wants 50 grand, and no points. Hell, Sub Pop got 3 points when they let Nirvana go. They're signed for four years, with options on each year, for a total of over a million dollars! That's a lot of money in any man's English. The first year's advance alone is $250,000. Just think about it, a quarter-million, just for being in a rock band!
Their manager thinks it's a great deal, especially the large advance. Besides, he knows a publishing company that will take the band on if they get signed, and even give them an advance of 20 grand, so they'll be making that money too. The manager says publishing is pretty mysterious, and nobody really knows where all the money comes from, but the lawyer can look that contract over too. Hell, it's free money.
Their booking agent is excited about the band signing to a major. He says they can maybe average $1,000 or $2,000 a night from now on. That's enough to justify a five week tour, and with tour support, they can use a proper crew, buy some good equipment and even get a tour bus! Buses are pretty expensive, but if you figure in the price of a hotel room for everybody in the band and crew, they're actually about the same cost. Some bands (like Therapy? and Sloan and Stereolab) use buses on their tours even when they're getting paid only a couple hundred bucks a night, and this tour should earn at least a grand or two every night. It'll be worth it. The band will be more comfortable and will play better.
The agent says a band on a major label can get a merchandising company to pay them an advance on t-shirt sales! Ridiculous! There's a gold mine here! The lawyer should look over the merchandising contract, just to be safe.
They get drunk at the signing party. Polaroids are taken and everybody looks thrilled. The label picked them up in a limo.
They decided to go with the producer who used to be in Letterman's band. He had these technicians come in and tune the drums for them and tweak their amps and guitars. He had a guy bring in a slew of expensive old vintage microphones. Boy, were they "warm." He even had a guy come in and check the phase of all the equipment in the control room! Boy, was he professional. He used a bunch of equipment on them and by the end of it, they all agreed that it sounded very "punchy," yet "warm."
All that hard work paid off. With the help of a video, the album went like hotcakes! They sold a quarter million copies!
Here is the math that will explain just how fucked they are:
These figures are representative of amounts that appear in record contracts daily. There's no need to skew the figures to make the scenario look bad, since real-life examples more than abound. Income is underlined, expenses are not.
Advance: $250,000
Manager's cut: $37,500
Legal fees: $10,000
Recording Budget: $150,000
Producer's advance: $50,000
Studio fee: $52,500
Drum, Amp, Mic and Phase "Doctors": $3,000
Recording tape: $8,000
Equipment rental: $5,000
Cartage and Transportation: $5,000
Lodgings while in studio: $10,000
Catering: $3,000
Mastering: $10,000
Tape copies, reference CDs, shipping tapes, misc expenses: $2,000
Video budget: $30,000
Cameras: $8,000
Crew: $5,000
Processing and transfers: $3,000
Offline: $2,000
Online editing: $3,000
Catering: $1,000
Stage and construction: $3,000
Copies, couriers, transportation: $2,000
Director's fee: $3,000
Album Artwork: $5,000
Promotional photo shoot and duplication: $2,000
Band fund: $15,000
New fancy professional drum kit: $5,000
New fancy professional guitars (2): $3,000
New fancy professional guitar amp rigs (2): $4,000
New fancy potato-shaped bass guitar: $1,000
New fancy rack of lights bass amp: $1,000
Rehearsal space rental: $500
Big blowout party for their friends: $500
Tour expense (5 weeks): $50,875
Bus: $25,000
Crew (3): $7,500
Food and per diems: $7,875
Fuel: $3,000
Consumable supplies: $3,500
Wardrobe: $1,000
Promotion: $3,000
Tour gross income: $50,000
Agent s cut: $7,500
Manager's cut: $7,500
Merchandising advance: $20,000
Manager's cut: $3,000
Lawyer's fee: $1,000
Publishing advance: $20,000
Manager's cut: $3,000
Lawyer's fee: $1,000
Record sales: 250,000 @ $12 = $3,000,000 gross retail revenue Royalty (13% of 90% of retail): $351,000
Less advance: $250,000
Producer's points: (3% less $50,000 advance) $40,000
Promotional budget: $25,000
Recoupable buyout from previous label: $50,000
Net royalty: (-$14,000)
Record company income:
Record wholesale price $6.50 x 250,000 = $1,625,000 gross income
Artist Royalties: $351,000
Deficit from royalties: $14,000
Manufacturing, packaging and distribution @ $2.20 per record: $550,000
Gross profit: $710,000
The Balance Sheet: This is how much each player got paid at the end of the game.
Record company: $710,000
Producer: $90,000
Manager: $51,000
Studio: $52,500
Previous label: $50,000
Agent: $7,500
Lawyer: $12,000
Band member net income each: $4,031.25
The band is now 1/4 of the way through its contract, has made the music industry more than 3 millon dollars richer, but is in the hole $14,000 on royalties. The band members have each earned about 1/3 as much as they would working at a 7-11, but they got to ride in a tour bus for a month.
The next album will be about the same, except that the record company will insist they spend more time and money on it. Since the previous one never "recouped," the band will have no leverage, and will oblige.
The next tour will be about the same, except the merchandising advance will have already been paid, and the band, strangely enough, won't have earned any royalties from their t-shirts yet. Maybe the t-shirt guys have figured out how to count money like record company guys.
Some of your friends are probably already this fucked.
________________________
"the problem with music"
by steve albini
(excerpted from Baffler No. 5)
Whenever I talk to a band who are about to sign with a major label, I always end up thinking of them in a particular context. I imagine a trench, about four feet wide and five feet deep, maybe sixty yards long, filled with runny, decaying shit. I imagine these people, some of them good friends, some of them barely acquaintances, at one end of this trench. I also imagine a faceless industry lackey at the other end, holding a fountain pen and a contract waiting to be signed.
Nobody can see what's printed on the contract. It's too far away, and besides, the shit stench is making everybody's eyes water. The lackey shouts to everybody that the first one to swim the trench gets to sign the contract. Everybody dives in the trench and they struggle furiously to get to the other end. Two people arrive simultaneously and begin wrestling furiously, clawing each other and dunking each other under the shit. Eventually, one of them capitulates, and there's only one contestant left. He reaches for the pen, but the Lackey says, "Actually, I think you need a little more development. Swim it again, please. Backstroke."
And he does, of course.
I. A&R Scouts
Every major label involved in the hunt for new bands now has on staff a high-profile point man, an "A&R" rep who can present a comfortable face to any prospective band. The initials stand for "Artist and Repertoire," because historically, the A&R staff would select artists to record music that they had also selected, out of an available pool of each. This is still the case, though not openly.
These guys are universally young [about the same age as the bands being wooed], and nowadays they always have some obvious underground rock credibility flag they can wave. Lyle Preslar, former guitarist for Minor Threat, is one of them. Terry Tolkin, former NY independent booking agent and assistant manager at Touch and Go is one of them. Al Smith, former soundman at CBGB is one of them. Mike Gitter, former editor of XXX fanzine and contributor to Rip, Kerrang and other lowbrow rags is one of them. Many of the annoying turds who used to staff college radio stations are in their ranks as well.
There are several reasons A&R scouts are always young. The explanation usually copped-to is that the scout will be "hip" to the current musical "scene." A more important reason is that the bands will intuitively trust someone they think is a peer, and who speaks fondly of the same formative rock and roll experiences.
The A&R person is the first person to make contact with the band, and as such is the first person to promise them the moon. Who better to promise them the moon than an idealistic young turk who expects to be calling the shots in a few years, and who has had no previous experience with a big record company. Hell, he's as naive as the band he's duping. When he tells them no one will interfere in their creative process, he probably even believes it.
When he sits down with the band for the first time, over a plate of angel hair pasta, he can tell them with all sincerity that when they sign with company X, they're really signing with him and he's on their side. Remember that great, gig I saw you at in '85? Didn't we have a blast.
By now all rock bands are wise enough to be suspicious of music industry scum. There is a pervasive caricature in popular culture of a portly, middle aged ex-hipster talking a mile-a-minute, using outdated jargon and calling everybody "baby." After meeting "their" A&R guy, the band will say to themselves and everyone else, "He's not like a record company guy at all! He's like one of us." And they will be right. That's one of the reasons he was hired.
These A&R guys are not allowed to write contracts. What they do is present the band with a letter of intent, or "deal memo," which loosely states some terms, and affirms that the band will sign with the label once a contract has been agreed on.
The spookiest thing about this harmless sounding little "memo," is that it is, for all legal purposes, a binding document. That is, once the band sign it, they are under obligation to conclude a deal with the label. If the label presents them with a contract that the band don't want to sign, all the label has to do is wait. There are a hundred other bands willing to sign the exact same contract, so the label is in a position of strength.
These letters never have any term of expiration, so the band remain bound by the deal memo until a contract is signed, no matter how long that takes. The band cannot sign to another label or even put out its own material unless they are released from their agreement, which never happens. Make no mistake about it: once a band has signed a letter of intent, they will either eventually sign a contract that suits the label or they will be destroyed.
One of my favorite bands was held hostage for the better part of two years by a slick young "He's not like a label guy at all,' A&R rep, on the basis of such a deal memo. He had failed to come through on any of his promises (something he did with similar effect to another well-known band), and so the band wanted out. Another label expressed interest, but when the A&R man was asked to release the band, he said he would need money or points, or possibly both, before he would consider it.
The new label was afraid the price would be too dear, and they said no thanks. On the cusp of making their signature album, an excellent band, humiliated, broke up from the stress and the many months of inactivity.
II. There's This Band
There's this band. They're pretty ordinary, but they're also pretty good, so they've attracted some attention. They're signed to a moderate-sized "independent" label owned by a distribution company, and they have another two albums owed to the label.
They're a little ambitious. They'd like to get signed by a major label so they can have some security—you know, get some good equipment, tour in a proper tour bus—nothing fancy, just a little reward for all the hard work.
To that end, they got a manager. He knows some of the label guys, and he can shop their next project to all the right people. He takes his cut, sure, but it's only 15%, and if he can get them signed then it's money well spent. Anyway, it doesn't cost them any thing if it doesn't work. 15% of nothing isn't much!
One day an A&R scout calls them, says he's "been following them for a while now," and when their manager mentioned them to him, it just "clicked." Would they like to meet with him about the possibility of working out a deal with his label? Wow. Big Break time.
They meet the guy, and y'know what—he's not what they expected from a label guy. He's young and dresses pretty much like the band does. He knows all their favorite bands. He's like one of them. He tells them he wants to go to bat for them, to try to get them everything they want. He says anything is possible with the right attitude. They conclude the evening by taking home a copy of a deal memo they wrote out and signed on the spot.
The A&R guy was full of great ideas, even talked about using a name producer. Butch Vig is out of the question—he wants 100 g's and three points, but they can get Don Fleming for $30,000 plus three points. Even that's a little steep, so maybe they'll go with that guy who used to be in David Letterman's band. He only wants three points. Or they can have just anybody record it [like Warton Tiers, maybe—cost you 5 or 10 grand] and have Andy Wallace remix it for 4 grand a track plus 2 points. It was a lot to think about.
Well, they like this guy and they trust him. Besides, they already signed the deal memo. He must have been serious about wanting them to sign. They break the news to their current label, and the label manager says he wants them to succeed, so they have his blessing. He will need to be compensated, of course, for the remaining albums left on their contract, but he'll work it out with the label himself. Sub Pop made millions from selling off Nirvana, and Twin Tone hasn't done bad either: 50 grand for the Babes and 60 grand for the Poster Children—without having to sell a single additional record. It'll be something modest. The new label doesn't mind, so long as it's recoupable out of royalties.
Well, they get the final contract, and it's not quite what they expected. They figure it's better to be safe than sorry and they turn it over to a lawyer—one who says he's experienced in entertainment law—and he hammers out a few bugs. They're still not sure about it, but the lawyer says he's seen a lot of contracts, and theirs is pretty good. They'll be getting a great royalty: 13% [less a 10% packaging deduction]. Wasn't it Buffalo Tom that were only getting 12% less 10? Whatever.
The old label only wants 50 grand, and no points. Hell, Sub Pop got 3 points when they let Nirvana go. They're signed for four years, with options on each year, for a total of over a million dollars! That's a lot of money in any man's English. The first year's advance alone is $250,000. Just think about it, a quarter-million, just for being in a rock band!
Their manager thinks it's a great deal, especially the large advance. Besides, he knows a publishing company that will take the band on if they get signed, and even give them an advance of 20 grand, so they'll be making that money too. The manager says publishing is pretty mysterious, and nobody really knows where all the money comes from, but the lawyer can look that contract over too. Hell, it's free money.
Their booking agent is excited about the band signing to a major. He says they can maybe average $1,000 or $2,000 a night from now on. That's enough to justify a five week tour, and with tour support, they can use a proper crew, buy some good equipment and even get a tour bus! Buses are pretty expensive, but if you figure in the price of a hotel room for everybody in the band and crew, they're actually about the same cost. Some bands (like Therapy? and Sloan and Stereolab) use buses on their tours even when they're getting paid only a couple hundred bucks a night, and this tour should earn at least a grand or two every night. It'll be worth it. The band will be more comfortable and will play better.
The agent says a band on a major label can get a merchandising company to pay them an advance on t-shirt sales! Ridiculous! There's a gold mine here! The lawyer should look over the merchandising contract, just to be safe.
They get drunk at the signing party. Polaroids are taken and everybody looks thrilled. The label picked them up in a limo.
They decided to go with the producer who used to be in Letterman's band. He had these technicians come in and tune the drums for them and tweak their amps and guitars. He had a guy bring in a slew of expensive old vintage microphones. Boy, were they "warm." He even had a guy come in and check the phase of all the equipment in the control room! Boy, was he professional. He used a bunch of equipment on them and by the end of it, they all agreed that it sounded very "punchy," yet "warm."
All that hard work paid off. With the help of a video, the album went like hotcakes! They sold a quarter million copies!
Here is the math that will explain just how fucked they are:
These figures are representative of amounts that appear in record contracts daily. There's no need to skew the figures to make the scenario look bad, since real-life examples more than abound. Income is underlined, expenses are not.
Advance: $250,000
Manager's cut: $37,500
Legal fees: $10,000
Recording Budget: $150,000
Producer's advance: $50,000
Studio fee: $52,500
Drum, Amp, Mic and Phase "Doctors": $3,000
Recording tape: $8,000
Equipment rental: $5,000
Cartage and Transportation: $5,000
Lodgings while in studio: $10,000
Catering: $3,000
Mastering: $10,000
Tape copies, reference CDs, shipping tapes, misc expenses: $2,000
Video budget: $30,000
Cameras: $8,000
Crew: $5,000
Processing and transfers: $3,000
Offline: $2,000
Online editing: $3,000
Catering: $1,000
Stage and construction: $3,000
Copies, couriers, transportation: $2,000
Director's fee: $3,000
Album Artwork: $5,000
Promotional photo shoot and duplication: $2,000
Band fund: $15,000
New fancy professional drum kit: $5,000
New fancy professional guitars (2): $3,000
New fancy professional guitar amp rigs (2): $4,000
New fancy potato-shaped bass guitar: $1,000
New fancy rack of lights bass amp: $1,000
Rehearsal space rental: $500
Big blowout party for their friends: $500
Tour expense (5 weeks): $50,875
Bus: $25,000
Crew (3): $7,500
Food and per diems: $7,875
Fuel: $3,000
Consumable supplies: $3,500
Wardrobe: $1,000
Promotion: $3,000
Tour gross income: $50,000
Agent s cut: $7,500
Manager's cut: $7,500
Merchandising advance: $20,000
Manager's cut: $3,000
Lawyer's fee: $1,000
Publishing advance: $20,000
Manager's cut: $3,000
Lawyer's fee: $1,000
Record sales: 250,000 @ $12 = $3,000,000 gross retail revenue Royalty (13% of 90% of retail): $351,000
Less advance: $250,000
Producer's points: (3% less $50,000 advance) $40,000
Promotional budget: $25,000
Recoupable buyout from previous label: $50,000
Net royalty: (-$14,000)
Record company income:
Record wholesale price $6.50 x 250,000 = $1,625,000 gross income
Artist Royalties: $351,000
Deficit from royalties: $14,000
Manufacturing, packaging and distribution @ $2.20 per record: $550,000
Gross profit: $710,000
The Balance Sheet: This is how much each player got paid at the end of the game.
Record company: $710,000
Producer: $90,000
Manager: $51,000
Studio: $52,500
Previous label: $50,000
Agent: $7,500
Lawyer: $12,000
Band member net income each: $4,031.25
The band is now 1/4 of the way through its contract, has made the music industry more than 3 millon dollars richer, but is in the hole $14,000 on royalties. The band members have each earned about 1/3 as much as they would working at a 7-11, but they got to ride in a tour bus for a month.
The next album will be about the same, except that the record company will insist they spend more time and money on it. Since the previous one never "recouped," the band will have no leverage, and will oblige.
The next tour will be about the same, except the merchandising advance will have already been paid, and the band, strangely enough, won't have earned any royalties from their t-shirts yet. Maybe the t-shirt guys have figured out how to count money like record company guys.
Some of your friends are probably already this fucked.
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very VERY relevant. I wish someone would make a reality show about this.
this is to say nothing of getting "shelved," and having someone own your masters. The best thing i've seen happen to my friends is them getting dropped by a label! If they can get their masters out of it, they don't have to recoup any advance or recording fees! isn't that a twisted little irony?!
then compare this model with an independant artist, such as steve vai, who sold some 3/4 million copies of Passion and Warfare independently, making some 5-7 bucks an album. that's how to do it. -
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Unsu...
I love the way he breaks down the math; so many musicians are just utterly clueless (even deliberately so) about the business end of the game, thinking about rock star contracts and swimming pools, coke, & hookers... -
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hey, i'd love it if you joined my tribe
!FUCK THE MUSIC INDUSTRY!
and posted this there. really add some legitimacy to the place -
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How to proceed depends on what you're trying to sell as much
as to whom you're trying to sell it.
Frank Zappa was able to make a lot more money by selling a lot fewer
units only because he had already established a fanatical niche market. That people either would or would not buy his recordings
regardless of whether a Warner Brothers marketing team told them
to meant that Zappa only needed to produce enough overhead units to
sell to people who didn't need to be agressively marketed to. This
meant that millions of dollars were being wasted under WB trying to
sell Zappa records to people who just didn't want them. By starting
Barking Pumpkin, Zappa was able to start putting much of that money
back into his own pocket, rather than effectively paying it
(OK...allowing/causing it to be paid) to WB marketers and excess
manufacturing. Zappa won by making more money, having greater
creative control and by not having to worry so much about how broad/narrow his appeal was. The consumers won either by getting a purer
Zappa product or by being less harassed by marketing to which
they were not receptive. Warner Brothers won by being able to
free up funds for other more marketable recording artists.
Everybody benefitted from the change when Zappa and WB split off.
With the big labels, if you consider where the money starts and
ends, you really have to consider the actual music to be less of
a product than it is a marketing tool that helps sell the marketing
connected with it. (You only THINK that's counterintuitive!)
So... do you want to be in the music business or in the marketing-marketing business? -
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Actually, your numbers are slightly off.
No manager will take a band as their first-time management for less than 17.5%. Most start you out at 20% until you hit the cap of $75-$80 thousand worth of payable fees, at which point they will drop the rate to whatever the next step is.
$500 for an industry party is shameful. Would never happen. That's a cocktail lunch. Double it.
There are other places where you slightly overstated. It almost balances out. But any band who agrees to this kinda shit must be complete idiots.
The majors are all in trouble. I know dozens of ex-employees of Capitol who were downsized as the industry slowly sinks below the waves. I'd feel a lot more pity for them if they weren't getting a year's severance from the package. More industry stupidity, really. But they keep doing things the same old way, refusing to change. They know that their days are numbered, they are worried. Hell, you can smell the fear in those offices.
But the worst result is that people want to fuck the entire industry because of them. People want to fuck over the whole industry: indies, artists...the whole lot, because of the majors. I think it's important to know the difference. Indies are easier targets than Warner or Capitol and are hurt far worse by all of the anti-industry backlash. The best way to fuck the majors is just to support the indies. Buy smart. Read the label. Vote with your dollars. And don't vote for the bloated fat-assed bloodsucking giants. If they want my money, they can beg for it outside the 7-Eleven. -
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Unsu...
[fyi- I didn't come up with these numbers: Steve Albini did 6 or 7 years ago. Regardless tho...]
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Yup. That WAS the industry 6 or 7 years ago. But being angry about it now is useless. That particular industry is long since dead. For at least the past four years. And the pirates have been using the old industry as an excuse for what they are doing to the artists and labels. They want to help us all...by stealing our money. With help like that we'll all be dead soon.
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.Unsu...
Um, the pirates aren't the problem Carvin. The bottom line for me as a musician is this:
Why did man originally start making music? Was it for sharing with those around us openly & creating communal bonds through expression- or were those cavemen making tunes hoping to get a big hit and sell their entire catalog to another savvy caveman A&R agent?
Obviously it's the former; music came first, and the capitalist middlemen came much later. These same middlemen who've been systematically exploiting (I'd almost rather call it raping) artists for decades are now crying out that their poor, poor artists aren't getting *fed*? Please! The record companies are just corporations that exploit another natural product, the surplus of angry young men and women with guitars (or turntables, or whatever). They not only care nothing about the musicians, but would market anything that sold regardless of quality and at the expense of people actually contributing quality.
Don't get me wrong: I'd love to be able to make a living off of my music. But I'd keep playing it even if it cost me more money than I already spend on gear and crap- it's my free therapy. Likewise, I would imagine that any musician who's really in it for the music would keep doing what they do regardless of compensation. Anybody who plays music just to get rich isn't an artist, they're an entertainer... and that's a whole different thing.
So when it's all said and done, I have to raise a loud "FUCK YOU!" to the RIAA for all they've done and failed to do over the years and hope that this situation either results in them going bankrupt or a massive paradigm shift in the way music is distributed... Because if I had to choose between a world without music and a world without capitalist music industry pimps, then guess who loses?
PS - any weeping little Dudley Do-Rights still confused about the moral ambiguity of this situation should research the history of radio. The exact same thing was decried by the record industry back then - "people getting music for free? Unimaginable!" Your concerns about artist remuneration are likely well-intended, but this is a much bigger battle that's mounting.
And there's no way in HELL anybody- RIAA, pirates, or anyone else- will ever 'kill' my music. -
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Why does this remind me of Will Farrell screaming;
'I AM A DEMON AND I WILL MAKE THE SEAS RUN RED WITH THE BLOOD OF SINNERS!!!'
?
Ride the snake, Eric... ride that funky snake. -
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Unsu...
[draws sword, bug-eyed and frothing at the mouth]
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So what you are saying Eric is that you don't believe in your music to stake your life on it. That's all very nice. You seem to be convinced that I'm in it to make a hit record and "sell out" or whatever. Is that what you tell yourself to justify stealing music? Or is that what you tell yourself to make yourself feel better about not going for it?
For the record, I'm not "Dudley Do-Right." I'm a working artist, living on the edge of extinction. Piracy has cost me much more money than I actually make. I've never been signed with the majors, never "sold out" to giant corporations. Though I do have to sell a little bit of my soul now and then just to pay the rent.
If you wanna argue about what constitutes art, I'm game. But stealing from artists hurts them. Make no mistake. At least be man enough to admit what you are doing and stop hiding behind that old lie that it doesn't hurt us. -
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I guess I'm missing something here. Carvin, what are you talking about when you mention piracy? Are you talking about the filesharing of mediocre quality MP3s, that help sell a LOT of music today or are you talking about majors making off with artists music and giving them next to nothing for it while padding their pockets with the artists' creative works? Would you be talking about how CDs cost pennies to make as opposed to what vinyl used to, and how the margin is now so nicely bloated with profits that companies like Virgin can buy their own airlines, and own some of the most costly real estate in many major cities all over the planet while the musicians, like yourself, who have worked their fucking asses to the bone for their entire lives to create something magical live on hotdogs and ramen on what they recieve from those same music sales? I'm not trying to jump on your shit at all. You do what you believe in, as do I, and I totally respect that. I'm just trying to get a better grasp of the conversation.
O -
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hey!
hot dogs and ramen is good shit! -
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Whether or not to 'sell out' is the kind of dilemma I only wish I could be tormented with.
Someone torment me with that... please? -
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yeah, i've been trying to sell my soul for months now. no-ones buying.
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Since you really want to know....
It took years to get anyone to buy anything. I went to the right parties and talked to the right people and after seven years I found a publisher whom I pestered every day for a whole year after that. He sent me to a small indie label who hired me to make an album of pure crap on a next-to-nothing budget, so I could get my foot in the door.
On the advise of my "agent" (the publisher) I recorded under a pseudonym. The material was the first-ever release of the themes from '70s pornos. It spawned a whole genre of copycats. I was completely amazed.
Some of the "cover" material that the record label hired me for was owned by the mob, who tried to leverage those poor indies into giving them more money. The label instead pulled all of that first record off the market.
They immediately hired me again, this time I got a piece of the publishing and the full writers share of the new material that I wrote. In a months time, I the "great Wagnerian composer," wrote 12 pieces of "porno" music for an ensemble of musicians playing vintage 70s gear. After a week in the studio, we had our dirty little "masterpiece" ready for public consumption. Unknowingly, I had become an electronic musician. The DJ community claimed me for thier own....but that's another story....
Sales blew up. I got the title spot and the "Pie Scene" in "American Pie." For a couple of years, I was living the life. Then came Napster. Sales dried up to nothing. At any time of day or night, there were over a thousand entries on napster of my music. NONE of those had the name of my album, my name, my psuedonym or the record label's name on them at all. People had my music for free and no way to find me, so they couldn't buy my music. Why should they? They could get it for free. Within a year my soundscan dropped to zero. We heard my stuff everywhere but nobody was paying for it.
The two years of success bought me better equipment, better vintage gear and a little more time to make my own music. I also got a gig scoring a documentary about Ron Jeremy, plus a handful of gigs doing spot-cues for indie films and cartoons.
But getting closer to the industry has also meant seeing how piracy is closing down many of the record companies. Even Capitol (where I once had many friends) is a hollow shell of it's former self. All the good guys are gone from the majors now. That's really the worst thing about piracy....it hurts the good guys first. The evil old bastards won't miss a meal or a payment on their Mercedes Benz for that matter but the good guys get fucked in the ass for something that some smart-ass with a pc did a thousand miles away. When the RIAA finally started going after piracy, it was much too late already and the only guys left to lead the charge had no clue as to what they were doing, so it was all bungled beyond belief. The last bastion of the good guys was trying to protect us with lawsuits that would become the greatest PR disaster the industry has ever known.
The indie artists are especially affected by the P2P networks. If your soundscan hits zero for any given quarter, you are considered un-hireable. I know several great hip-hop producers who can't get their records released now because piracy stole their sales. No soundscan = no new contract. I have film and cartoons. Those guys got nothing. There are now hundred of unreleased masterpieces sitting on hard-drives in L.A. alone. My newest alum is perhaps my best work ever but it will never see the light of day, thanks to P2P networks.
So yes, I have a particular hatred of piracy. All those claims that it helps musicians is a lie. It doesn't help sales. It doesn't get the word out. It has laid waste to my community and cost me money, work and even a few friends some of which were so poor when they died that their bodies lay at the L.A. County Morgue for months before anybody could legally claim them. I suppose the part that angers me the most is the claim that P2P helps musicians.
I won't tell you not to do it. You are all adults and you will do what you will. But don't lie to me. You aren't helping anyone but yourselves. John Doe and Exene both work day jobs in retail now. They are more popular now than they have been in over 15 years but nobody is actually buying their records. P2P kills sales and that hurts the artists. If somebody tells you different, they are lying. -
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wow.
you did the ron jeremy doc. cool!
best argument i've ever heard about this... -
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ditto that
Carvin is more persuasive on this point than everything else I have read so far, combined.
Since Carvin posted his views here, I assume the post is fair game for ditribution, but as moderator, I like to think I have some effect on setting the tone for such things, so...
Carvin- do you mind if I quote you?
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Unsu...
There are people working on new models for the music industry. While working in LA, I had the extreme honor of working with and befriending Rupert Hine, a brilliant producer and an amazing artist in his own right. He is in the final stages of starting a record company in which the artist and company enter into a joint venture type of deal. I asked him about the label's progress when I saw him at NAMM and he said in his dry, British humor, "We are applying the business model for the rest of the world to the music business. Pretty novel idea." It's so true. As long as I've known what really goes on in this business I wondered how it came to be like this. I have since learned and am still fairly disgusted. I, too, have friends that have got canned from labels, friends that haven't got their paychecks from studios, etc. It sucks. But I like Rupert's take on the whole thing: The artist has talent, we (Roop and his partners) have experience, capital, and means of distribution, why don't we all make great art, find the best means to deliver it to people and ALL share in the profits. This idea, I believe, came out of a few separate incidences where Rupert helped bands/artists that he liked and believed in navigate the early stages of their careers (one, in particular, is Black Rebel Motorcycle Club) for no personal gain whatsoever. Just because he liked them and believed in them and he knows first-hand the ills of the business. I guess I'm trying to say that it is not horrible to want to make a living making music and there are people out there who want to help others to do just that. I think more people like Rupert, who have been through just about every trial and tribulation in the music business and still have such a passion and love and respect for THE MUSIC, should step up at this crucial time and give back to the future of music. Not sure of a name or anything yet. There is, however, mention of the project on his site ruperthine.com. I'll try to post some updates in the near future. I do have to agree with Oogie, "indy all the way".
Brett -
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Hey Brett, you may have just saved this thread....
Perhaps instead of bitching about what sucks...and at this point we all pretty much know what sucks....we should be trying to help create the new business model.
I think we can all agree that the old way of doing things is nearly extinct. Like it or not, piracy or not, the golden age of the record industry is gone forever. Just as those who couldn't find their way out of the stone age could not enjoy the bronze age, we must adapt.
To elaborate on what you said about the Industry's business model, it currently looks like something from a bad gangser movie. That old dinosaur has hunted it's prey to the point of extinction and is being hunted by hungry mammals now. Evolution is afoot. So now we need a new business model. One that will deliver music (and hopefully art) to the masses and get us paid for our hard work.
Who's got ideas? -
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My business model:
4 day jobs -
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More live performance, on-the spot recording and duplication, less emphasis on mass duplication, more emphasis on things like making pressings of 100 records, numbering each copy, keeping a book with the buyer's names, cutting up the stamper into 100 pieces, and putting a piece of it in the package with each copy, then charging something like $30-50 per copy of the record. We are getting fucked because it's so easy for people to get our stuff, and play it anywhere. So...take it back. Limit your pressings. Only sell them at shows in person. Turn it back into art instead of simply product. Anybody playing a CD is a thief. MP3? Thief. Easy to spot, easy to go after. Anybody who's playing your record is going to have their name in the book, or the person they bought it from. Instead of giving it away, increase value be decreasing availablity, while not compromising on quality. It may weed out the non-hackers. Then again, it's a bit of a gamble, because you've still got to get people to buy your art at price their willing to pay and will still let you eat/thrive. It's a thought.
O -
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isn't that what stockhausen did? his old electronic stuff is like 50 bucks a pop! fuck!
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Now let's try that again with a little more realism.
Bear in mind that we all know we can't stop technology. CDs and .mp3 files are a fact of life. I love the idea of only releasing on vinyl, but I want to be able to pay all my bills and have health insurance too.
And if you are an artist, your work week begins the moment you wake up and ends when you die. It's not like any of you could turn your creativity off like a light bulb. Just try it. Without drugs, I mean.
If any of this were to work, you all know it would be a case of the lunatics running the asylum. -
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>And if you are an artist, your work week begins the >moment you wake up and ends when you die.
ain't that the goddamn truth. i can't relax for the life of me. i either stop, or keep going until the damn thing's done.
well, back to work.
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We can't stop it per se, we you don't have to use all of it either. I'm not encouraging others to starve, just do what will actually pay, and not fuck everyone else around you. What pays is direct sales, and live gigs (although most live gigs pay a pittance these days, but that could change with more musicians focusing on playing and giving audiences good reasons to want to see things played live, instead of music in a can). Most other things tend to be funny money and games, at least as far as I've seen, which isn't all that much, but enough to learn some small things that work. On the big scale? Practice stretching your hamstrings so you can grab your ankles more easily, and do plenty of breathing and relaxation exercises?
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>We can't stop it per se, we you don't have to use all of it either
Too true. But editing ourselves is at least half of the job anyhow.
>On the big scale? Practice stretching your hamstrings so you can grab your ankles more easily, and do plenty of breathing and relaxation exercises?
Nope. Getting fucked doesn't pay the big money. That's what they want you to think....but they only pay you the big money to do your own thing. That's the point where you MAKE them pay to you do your thing (provided your own thing can create a strong emotional reaction). It's all interrelated.
Remember the Beethoven Paradigm. It still works. He did his own thing to the last and made them pay big so he could keep doing it. He wouldn't be treated as a servant. He wouldn't follow the "traditional" forms. Occaisionally, he had to write "Bagatelles" and "Peasant Dances" for the organ-grinder companies in order to pay the rent, but even those became part of his Sixth Symphony.
Doesn't mean that we'll all become revolutionaries, but once Dreamy Ludwig Van broke the old mold, we couldn't go back to the old model.
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Well in a more perfect world the following would improve the music industry trememdously IMHO. This is off the top of my head. Of course I realize that I am probably dreaming on some of these.
Let's see...for one we can stop charging $17 or $18 for a new CD which if fucking OUTRAGEOUS.
Secondly the artist should make MORE than the usual 10% cut off of music sales which is also OUTRAGEOUS.
Third, payola should be AGAINST THE LAW like it used to be. Thanks to a conservative Congress it is perfectly legal as long as it is declared.
Fourth, internet radio stations should pay the same amount of money to an label/artist to play their music as radio stations over the airways NOT MORE like the current arrangement. In some cases labels/artists should be able to wave ANY FEE simply to get more exposure.
Fifth, a subscription pay web service should be created for artists. The consumer pays a yearly (or other time period) fee for access to the web site (not unlike the "adult" industry model) for access to their music, interviews, video, order T-shirts, tablature, interactive chat with other fans and the artist, artwork, etc. This creates a feeling of a "bond" between artist and consumer. It also makes it less likely that the consumer will pirate (though this will never be stamped out completely).
Sixth, cut out major labels ALTOGETHER. Form independent collectives where like minded bands pool their resources together for recording and distribution. The web subscription model could be based either on a single band (for one rate) or an the entire band collective or label (for another rate).
Finally, here is the most ideological suggestion which unfortunately will probably never happen but I can dream...The marketing of a band should NEVER be based on the physical attractiveness of the band members. This is the most sexist aspect of the music industry today. Almost EVERY female you see on a major label today looks like a friggin model. I dare say that Janis Joplin, Aretha Franklin, and Patsy Cline would NEVER get a record contract today by a major label. Major labels today market based on IMAGE not substance. Of course I am probably preaching to the choir here! If I worked for a major label today I would be EMBARRASSED by most of the shclock that gets released. The bottom line has taken over from "pride of ownership". Maybe I'm being naive but I think you can release great music AND make a profit...
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All these are good ideas, and Carv, I dig what you're saying, totally. I'm all for integrity, artistic, business, and personal. So let's look at this for a moment. Where do musicians make their money? Where is it being taken from them? Where and when do they not get fucked? How does one successfully fuck the majors and come out above water? How does one increase demand for their creations? How does one decrease the bullshit factors with business matters? How does one increase audience awareness, conscience, and support? There are lots of possibile answers, but not all of them work together, and there are a lot of people making them not work, mostly out of greed or desperation. How to deal with those things? Thoughts?
O
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A wise musician once told me that MUSIC and music BUSINESS are an unhappy couple in a forced marriage based on convenience and neccesity. Not many musicians can escape it. Charles Ives had his insurance gig so he didn't have to worry about money. As a result he was free to be as creative as he wanted and not have to worry about where his next meal was coming from ("I didn't want my family to starve on my dissonances" -Ives). Sadly, businessmen are unlike patrons of the past in that they tend to see musicians as a commodity and treat music like any other product in your local Wal-Mart. This can't be healthy for the creative process or art.
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yeah I know...patrons of the past where not all awesome cats either.
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I have an ever increasing appreciation of the way Korean musicians fit into their culture.
The great masters are all amateurs; to be a professional (to be paid for one's art) implies that one is 'doing it for the money'; that one is a technician, rather than an artist. -
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Yes, Josh, but that becomes very classist. Being a great master means you cannot come from the lower caste in Korea. Growing up in the Ghetto means that I would never fit in to such a system.
And Oogie, I assumed that you were referring to "whoring yourself out." That's what I meant when I said that the big money wasn't there.
Oh and 10% is more than the "customary" amount that an artist makes on any CD. If you get a dollar per sale, you're making the average. But CD prices are driven up most by the printing. If you don't get a good bit of full-colour design with your music, you are being ripped off.
I'll be able to participate more in the discussion later on, but I have to record a brass section for an indie film. No big money in this one, but every film counts. You never know who is listening, so everything must be done as though this is the big demo that will get you the gig with Spielberg.
(and for the record, I don't think Steven would hire me for anything....it's a long story but my encounters with Spielberg involved my own clumsiness and rudeness. I'm sure he has long since recovered but I don't think I'll get any favours from the guy) -
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I wasn't referring to the whoring aspect, although that is part of it too, so much as I was referring to deals with majors in general because sooner or later they're going to be calling the shots on what and how you play, and you're just in it as the ride.
10%? Shit when it comes to majors, all I hear about is points, like tenths of a percent or some crap. It's a fuckin joke, but the joke's on whoever signs the paper. Good luck on the film thing, hope it gets you some more gigs, and if you've got more than you can handle, pass me some simple and cheap shit. ;)
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>and if you've got more than you can handle, pass me some simple and cheap shit. ;)
More than I can handle is my fondest wish. I'll let ya know.
I don't have to worry about the majors knocking at my door. The film thing was my first goal. Electronica followed when I needed it most. Nothing I do could be described as "mainstream."
...but I do love Capitol's studios. I've had the pleasure of recording in there (in the Frank Sinatra room) a few times. I get called in to play theremin now and then for rock bands and hip-hop artists. Great room. The louver system is very cool. And the tape machines are beautiful old 1-inch open reel 16-track analog things. Or you could just record straight to your Mac. That studio is my main reason for wanting Capitol to stay alive. Don't wanna do business with 'em. But their recording studio is a work of art.
There are great studios all over Hollywood that are simply sealed up in the basements of buildings. A few were taken over by post-houses. I've tried to get access whenever I can. I've made friends with a few of the better studio architects who can sometimes get the keys, but seeing them in a state of disrepair can be depressing. Capitol's rooms are haunted by the memories of the Beatles, Ray Charles and the Rat Pack....and they are very well maintained. I need to find a film that will budget for scoring sessions in there.... -
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>But CD prices are driven up most by the printing.
The cost of a CD, printing, and case has got to be less than a dollar per CD. You can buy bulk CD's for less than 50 cents a pop, and about another 25 cents for the case. I wouldn't think the printing would add more than another 25-50 cents. For them to turn around and mark it up to $17 or $18 is outrageous. I understand you have to mark it up somewhat to account for recording, promotion, profit, etc. But not THAT much! Not that I am justifying pirating but with prices like that I can understand why it's so popular.
Not to mention that the prices of blank CD's have been going down year after year and yet the prices of an artist on a major label have only gone UP. Not to mention the fact that the major labels and major retail outlets have been busted more than once for price fixing. Under a settlement a year or so ago they were ordered to repay millions of dollars to consumers. -
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Four-colour process printing for the tray adds about 30 cents per CD. For the book it ranges from 1-3 dollars depending on number of pages and staples.
One half of the retail cost of a CD goes to the record store, leaving around $9 for the label. Less CD and packaging, that makes it around $6 per sale. Artist royalty is around a dollar, not counting any mechanicals for previously released material. So now the label has $5 to cover promotion costs (everything from print advertising to gift baskets for broadcast DJs), administrative costs (somebody has to calculate my royalty) and any other costs.
And with the little indy labels, part of that cost pays for their commercial failures. For all the artsy little albums that never made money. For the expiraments in pop music that didn't quite fly. For the ventures in marketing that failed to make a ripple in the public awareness.
Not that I'm trying to justify $18 for a CD. That had better be a damn good album with lots of printed art in the liner notes. But I thought it might help to see where our money goes.
And I'm pretty tough on the labels usually. For that kinda money, there's no excuse for skimping on the extras. Or for putting out a half-assed album.
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>$17 or $18 is outrageous.
I think that depends upon what you define as 'costs'.
Are we including keeping the musicians fed and clothed
while they attend some kind of school where they acquire
the musical/technical skills they need to make the music
in the first place? Are we including the cost of maintaining
instruments.... a studio... a psychiatric team.... ?
The 'cost' of making a CD should in some way reflect to the various
costs of someone choosing to use part of their life to try to make CDs
rather than (let's say...?...) work extra hours as a drive-thru cashier at McDonalds.
And then there are distribution costs...
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